Alchemical Ancestral Work to Release “Not Enoughness” w/ Kacy Fleming
A Somatic Session Turned Alchemical Constellation Work with Ancestors.
I’m so excited to introduce you to another friend and colleague, Kacy Fleming! Kacy is the founder of The Fuschia Tent, which exists to support women through the menopausal transition. I think this conversation with Kacy is going to be so helpful for many of you for many different reasons!
Before we recorded this conversation, Kacy expressed an interest in somatic work so that’s where we thought we’d be going with this session. But Kacy’s ancestors had other plans!
This quickly turned into an alchemical ancestral constellation work session—you’ll hear why. Kacy’s intention remained the same: to let go of not enoughness so I can step into the present moment with grace and ease.
You’ll especially want to tune into this client session if you, too:
» want to let go of the feeling of “not enoughness”
» want to feel more present in your daily life
» are Jewish or have Jewish ancestors
» feel called to clear intergenerational trauma
» have family who immigrated or experienced loss
The entire conversation unfolded beautifully! And I’m sure, no matter what your lineage is, that there’s something powerful in here for you.
As you listen to the podcast, you can pause and substitute in the specifics that feel resonant to your field because what we cover is very relevant for many different people's historical, systemic, and cultural context.
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
How to know when it’s time for alchemical constellation work
How doing constellation work helps us and our ancestors
How to connect with ancestors even when you didn’t know them in the physical form
What constellation work does differently than Western processes
How entanglements impact our daily life
How many ancestors you can connect with during a family systems constellation work session
What steps to take to heal this ancestral entanglement
What to do after an ancestral constellation work session
Final thoughts from Kacy after the ancestral work
I’m so grateful to Kacy for her trust and willingness to join me! If any part of this conversation resonated, please let me know if you’d like to hear more about constellation work, or even perimenopause. Drop a note in the comments!
Resources:
Meet: Kacy Fleming
Kacy Fleming is an award-winning workplace well-being strategist and women's health advocate with over twenty years in biopharmaceuticals. After experiencing perimenopause symptoms and struggling to find reliable information, she founded The Fuchsia Tent to support women through the menopausal transition. As CEO of The Fuchsia Tent and her well-being consultancy, she helps organizations achieve sustainable growth and market leadership in talent management. A TEDx speaker and LinkedIn Top Voice for public speaking, Kacy frequently delivers keynotes, guest lectures at UMass Amherst, and appears on global podcasts. Her work on workplace well-being has been featured in Thrive Global and The Flow Space.
Connect w/ Kacy:
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Soulful Visionary Podcast follows
Amy Babish: I'm your host, Amy Babish and I am so excited today to have a friend and a colleague and someone who inspires me. We have Kacy Fleming and I have this experience of the guests in this podcast are starting to emerge in a way that they want to share their bios, which is absolutely wonderful. And many guests also want to have pseudonyms, which is completely also more than okay. So I'm going to begin today's episode by reading Kacy's bio because I think it's going to inspire you. Kacy Fleming is an award winning workplace well being strategist and women's health advocate with over 20 years in biopharmaceuticals. After experiencing perimenopause symptoms and struggling to find reliable information, she founded the Fuchsia Tent to support women through the menopausal transition. As the CEO of the of the Fuchsia Tent and her well being consultancy, she helps organizations achieve sustainable growth and market leadership and talent management. A TEDx speaker, LinkedIn top voice for public speaking, Kacy frequently delivers keynotes, guest lectures at UMass Amherst and appears on global podcasts.
Amy Babish: Her work on workplace well being has been featured in Thrive Global, Global and Flow Space. Welcome in Kacy.
Kacy Fleming: Thank you, thank you, thank you. I know it feels like I always feel like I over. Like it's an over bio and it doesn't feel like it's me. But I think that's part of owning your space, right? Learning to own.
Amy Babish: Yes. And I think many people who listen to this podcast are either in perimenopause or they're very curious about it or they're postmenopausal. So this I think is going to be super meaningful and super helpful for many different reasons. And especially as we get into your intention, I think it's really going to speak to many, many, many listeners. So, Kacy and I just spoke briefly before meeting today, and in your own words, what would you say your intention is for our work together today?
Kacy Fleming: Yeah. So I suffer from never enough syndrome. And it is. It keeps me from enjoying or recognizing or feeling or being present so much of my life. And it's getting better. It's taken 48 years worth of work to even get to this point, but it's a long way from done. It's one of those things where, you know, I am so happy for people. And I like to think of myself as a crown straightener.
Kacy Fleming: I love that expression. And I'm really bad at straightening my own crown. And I'm really bad at recognizing that things take time. I'm very impatient, and I want everything that I want to happen to happen now. And when it does happen, these amazing things do happen. They never feel like enough. And I watch women who, you know, I idolized or, you know, in their careers, and nothing's ever enough for them, and they're gazillionaires and brilliant and whatever, and they're just running. They're just running.
Kacy Fleming: And I don't want that for myself. Like, I want a kind of success that's sustainable. I want to be able to own my success and not feel guilty about it or scared of it. And I want to let it into my life with grace and ease instead of the struggle that I'm constantly in to make everything happen all the time. So it's my intention is to let go of not enoughness so that I can step into the present moment with grace and ease.
Amy Babish: So potent. And when I do this kind of work, and we'll talk about what this kind of work is in a minute, I do take notes, and usually I do not take notes, but you can hear me typing. And those of you that are sound sensitive can probably hear that on the podcast. So I'm just going to capture those really potent words that you said. I'm gonna. Your intention is to let go of not enoughness so that you can. And then I heard grace niece, but I didn't hear that middle phrase.
Kacy Fleming: I want to step into the present moment and welcome it. There's. There's a lack of presence in my life, and I have to constantly be calling myself back. What you think will be a lifelong struggle. I just believe that it's hard to be present in this Very distracted world. But I'd like to get, I'd like for it to be smoother.
Amy Babish: Yes. Okay, so this is, this is really, really clear. Intention drives many different processes and many different wisdom traditions. And in the process that we're going to do today, this process is called alchemical family and systems, constellation work. And so with constellation work, when we have the intention, it kind of allows the systemic field that you carry that came before you to begin to organize. And so we're going to take it one step at a time. And I'll, I'll explain the process to you. And also for the listeners who are turning in, tuning in.
Amy Babish: So when, especially as high achieving women, but really anybody who's listening, in many parts of our life, we can have a goal and it executes and like, or have an intention and executes in like this kind of dynamic of never enoughness maybe isn't showing up. I can hear for you. It's really pervasive. And so when, when we have something that, like, no matter what we do, we always end up with the same result that is oftentimes reflective of an, what we call an ancestral entanglement. And so if it was something like inner child work or somatic work, if you learned the skills, you would have a different result or even belief work. So when it comes to ancestors, they're kind of like, no bullshit. They like scoff at, like, you think that mindset work is going to help this? You think that crystals are going to help this. You, you think that like even taking care of perimenopause is going to help this.
Amy Babish: They kind of just like scoff because they want respect and they want, they want whatever has happened to them that has, that is reoccurring in your lived life, in your present day again and again and again. They don't know how to reach us any other way when it comes to something like this, other than to bring the past into the present. And so when Kacy wrote to me, I have a really in depth podcast form to make sure that I'm clear that it's a good match for the podcast as a guest, I have these kind of my different modalities. And she's like, I think I want to try somatic work, because I've never tried somatic work because I have a lot of anxiety around this. And so when I tuned in, it was really clear. Her, her ancestors really spoke clearly to me that they were like this, this is not a somatic work thing. Amy. So, and I told her before we started recording that Somatic work would probably be helpful for other things in her life, but not.
Amy Babish: Not for this. So I'm always congruent. I'm always clear. And just as we start to begin the process, what do you notice in Kacy?
Kacy Fleming: I feel like I'm gonna cry.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: So I'm gonna let everybody now. I'm a cr. I'm. I'm a. I'm pretty honest with everything I post, so you probably can tell that I'm emotionally there, but I am afraid a little bit of what my ancestors want me to hear. Like, what am I not hearing? That's scary.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So it's a way. It's like we all have entanglements, and so some of us in this lifetime are open to doing the intergenerational work that creates healing for our lineage and then also for our legacy in the collective and others of us. It's just not the time for that. And in my experience with ancestors, kind of like in relationships in the real. In the. In our lived life, it takes as long as it takes, and it's a process. And.
Amy Babish: And what I always tell my clients is like, there's not a coincidence why they picked you as the descendant who's going to help them through the never enoughness and not being present. So there's something magnificent about you. Even though I know you a little bit before this, like, there's something truly magnificent about you and very like you carry something very unique in your lineage, and they chose you to. To help them to dissolve this burden or this something that's been omitted because they know that this is not just for them, it's for you too.
Kacy Fleming: I love that. That makes me feel better.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. So when I do the work, there's a lot of safety, there's a lot of boundaries, and intention is what creates that. And so ancestors are just like real people. They have feelings. And if there's confusion in the field that you're worried about, like being shamed or scolded, we have ways to work it through.
Kacy Fleming: That.
Amy Babish: That's. That pattern is not going to repeat itself in your process. Okay, so do you have any questions before we. We go deeper in?
Kacy Fleming: No. Let's do it.
Amy Babish: Okay. So our grandpas.
Kacy Fleming: Let's go.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So our first step, we call it a tune in. So we have your intention, letting go of the not enoughness, because I want to step into the present moment with grace and ease. That's. That's our intention that we're going to work with, even though there are many other intentions that might Be interconnected. This is the layer we're going to work with today. So when we tune in, we both close our eyes, and you might notice sensations, you might notice colors, you might notice people. I'm not a seer, so I don't see things.
Amy Babish: I sense things. And so we're both gonna tune in, and the question we ask is, who am I with? Who's with me? And I work with adoptees, so you don't have to know the. The whole. The whole family history, but we're gonna start there and we'll see what happens. Okay. And when you're ready, when you're. When you're. When you have it, you can open your eyes.
Amy Babish: That way I know you're complete.
Kacy Fleming: All right.
Amy Babish: Okay. What did you notice?
Kacy Fleming: So my dad's mom, my Grandma Barbara is here, and her mom, who I've never met and to be honest, cannot remember her name, is here. They're the two that are here.
Amy Babish: Okay, and what we're going to ask them. So we'll start with Grandma Barbara, and then your great grandma, her mom. I'm just making the notes. We're going to start with Grandma Barbara, and you're going to ask her, do you also carry this pattern of never enoughness and not being able to be present? Then we'll come back in. Okay. And you can also ask, did this pattern start with me? Like, with her? Did this pattern start with you?
Kacy Fleming: I got a very clear yes.
Amy Babish: Okay.
Kacy Fleming: She suffered from it. And a very clear no. It didn't start with her.
Amy Babish: Okay. So then we're gonna go to her mom, your great grandmother. We're gonna ask her, do you carry this pattern and did it start with you?
Kacy Fleming: It started with her.
Amy Babish: Okay. Okay. And do you know anything that is resonant as you tune into your great grandmother about if she was. If she immigrated here or if she was here through the immigration? Do you know anything about that?
Kacy Fleming: Yeah, she. She. I know that they were here through the Depression. What I got from her is something about men. Like, I got something about wanting power, wanting to be enough, having to prove her worth the men, like, something like that came across, but I. I don't know 100%.
Amy Babish: Okay, so we're going to. We're going to tune back in, and you can. You can check. You can check and see if. If she. Sometimes when we go into the ancestral field, she might let you know, like, the time period where this started. So it might be like you see her at a different age, even though you know her visually or relationally as like an older great grandmother. She might show you a different age and that might give us a little bit of context.
Kacy Fleming: Something about 17 to 20.
Amy Babish: Yeah. And do you know, given, you know, I don't know her age, but given her age, was she in America at that point? Okay. And you know, where they immigrated?
Kacy Fleming: They were living in Chicago.
Amy Babish: Okay. So when I tuned in.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah.
Amy Babish: Okay. When I, when I tuned in this, this layer, I saw her as like really, like, like slim and strong, 20 year old. Like, I heard like in the 20s and I felt like she's in a city and it's like, not that it was corporate, but like she's in like professional clothes. So we can ask her when we tune in, what's the context around you? You working in the world and having to prove yourself with.
Kacy Fleming: So this much I knew about her. But I heard a phrase, though. She was my, my grandma was a Depression baby, so she lost the wealth. Her parents lost the wealth. They were very wealthy when they immigrated and prior to the Depression. And she said, I'm not an heiress, I want to be more. So that's what I heard her say.
Amy Babish: Okay. Okay. So when we go, when we kind of. We're getting to the roots of it, I have a sense that there's something about that phrase because you also, when we started connecting today, you said, I'm someone who strings people's crowns, but I can't straighten my own crown. So when I'm tuning into the field, it's as if the ancestors are starting to check in. Even though I didn't specifically say that when we. I knew we're going to do this process today. So there's something about heiress royalty, like something very formal that is related to all of this.
Amy Babish: So it feels important to ask her. Can you let me know what part of the family, either your mom or your dad's side, that really reinforced like eris or formality or regality, and these aren't the right words yet, but we're kind of just kind of feeling around.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah. I mean, I don't even have to close my eyes. She's telling me it's her mom.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so we're going to go and talk with your great, great grandmother. And do you know where she is?
Kacy Fleming: I don't. She was, he was in. I know nothing. I mean, I really don't. I know. I know so much about my grandma's story, but I don't know. My, my, my grandma's, my grandpa's mother was alive when I was born, so I knew that grandmother. So I have a very close tie to her.
Kacy Fleming: I know. Remember her very clearly. She had a much freer energy. My grandma did. But my grandma's mom was gone before I was born and her mom was long gone, so I don't know.
Amy Babish: Yeah, sometimes we know and sometimes we don't. Just. We're just kind of bringing everything into the field. So we're going to tune in to your great great grandmother and ask her, let me know about what happened with being an heiress. Wealth, formality, anything. And she might be very clear about what it actually is because we're kind of. Help us to know what this. What.
Amy Babish: What the significance of this is.
Kacy Fleming: So we're Jewish, and in Austria, where we're originally from, you would buy your title as a Jew. There is no such thing as Jewish royal descendants that didn't have great wealth. And it was an honor that we had title, that we had anything at all, because we were Jewish, and that's not normal.
Amy Babish: Yeah. And what happens as you. You receive that from her and as you hear that, what happens for you?
Kacy Fleming: Well, in the state of this world, hating Jewish people, it's kind of terrifying to even admit that on an interview. But also. Yeah. I mean, it just. I see it in my dad. I see it in all of us. There's this sense of false entitlement. Right.
Kacy Fleming: Like that you're not really royalty if you had to buy it and that there's a. Like, you need to earn your worthiness. Right. Like, in order to be able to wear that crown, you have to earn it. And, oh, by the way, it was stripped away from you in the depression. So now, you know, you really are on your own. That's kind of how it feels.
Amy Babish: And as you. As you feel into that. We kind of spoke initially about the entanglement. Does it feel like you're entangled with your great great grandmother?
Kacy Fleming: Yeah, I mean, it feels like I'm letting everybody down. Like I'm always letting everybody down, no matter how hard I try.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So this is. You're going to. We're going to. We use ancestral phrases. And so you only say what's resonant. You only say what feels congruent. And if it's not it, we find another statement.
Amy Babish: I belong to. You're not belonging.
Kacy Fleming: I belong to your. It feels better than what. Like what my insides want to say is, I have a right to be here.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I have a right to. I have a right to everything that I've worked for. Everything. Like, that's. My insides are Kind of fighting.
Amy Babish: Yep.
Kacy Fleming: That phrase. Because I think that's my truth. I think my truth is that I have fought for everything. I have, but I don't want to fight.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So. So you can say, we're going to refine it, and you kind of, like, you can envision her presence, your great great grandmother. I belong to your fight for everything that you. That you earned.
Kacy Fleming: I belong to your fight for everything that you earned. I keep getting the word own.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I own the fight for everything that you earned.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. See, I belong to owning the fight for everything that you've earned.
Kacy Fleming: Belong to owning the fight for everything.
Amy Babish: Thank you.
Kacy Fleming: Okay.
Amy Babish: And what happens between the two of you when you. When you name that?
Kacy Fleming: She's backed off for a moment. I don't know that she's done, but.
Amy Babish: Oh. Oh, yeah, she's not. She's not done yet. She's just. I think part of what happens is when we can really start to recognize the deep struggle. Even though you intellectually know it, this is a deeper process that it's not intellectual. She can feel your heartfelt, like, real lived experience of knowing what that struggle is, what owning the fight means. And she is.
Amy Babish: It's like we're giving her some dignity and respect right now. That. Not that that was lost in the family story, but in some ways it was.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah. I think there's, like, what's coming up for me, and I don't know if it's coming from her or it's coming intellectually from what I know. I think it's coming from her. There is probably a lot of this in the family, this false sense of bravado. Right. That, like, we lost the money, and then we have all had a different kind of approach to, you know, trying to find our. Our own footing in the world separate from what that was, because it doesn't exist anymore. And I feel.
Kacy Fleming: I see it. Right. I see that. Like, we didn't. It was never intentional, the loss. Right. It was the depression. It happened for many, many, many, many families.
Kacy Fleming: But we're not entitled. No one is entitled. And that's what I'm getting. It's like, you have to work, and you're doing the work, and you have to work. And we're telling you this because you do work and you work your butt off, and you're not afraid, and you work. You need to hear it, because you've got to keep working.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: You want to quit, but you've got to keep going.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So this. This is all she knows, and this is Culturally, what many, many families know, not just Jewish families, but many families that lost really big in the Depression. Many people who are listening, their families have been through tragedies. We're taping this after the fires and Altadena taping this after, hopefully, a significant ceasefire in Gaza. Like, there are so many people throughout time who've lost things and never been able to find their footing. And as you kind of report in with your great grandmother, it's like this becomes like a compulsion or a conviction that working hard, put your head down, this is the only way you're going to survive.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah, I mean, that's. That's how it feels. It feels like I literally. I always use this phrase as a mantra to myself. You're not a human doing, you're a human being. And that's so resonant for me because the pressure inside is, be a human doing, be a human doing, be a human doing, be a human doing. You're only as good as your last achievement. You're only as good as how many people recognize you.
Kacy Fleming: You're only as good as what you have. You're only as good as getting your title back. Right. Like, this is on you. You have to do this. Nobody can do this but you. And that I also embarrassed. I hope people don't think I'm arrogant for thinking that I'm deserving of a title, because that's not it at all.
Kacy Fleming: It's just that I've always had this drive to be something more than I am. And why can't I just be good with all that I am? Right? And all that, I mean, to people, like, that's like my greatest impulse is to be in service of people and to be the crowd straightener and to care for people. And I feel like what gets in the way of that is my desire to be more. So I do all that good work. And then there's a part of me that is resentful or frustrated or tired and expects others to do for me as I do for them. And that is exhausting. It's just an exhausting energy exchange.
Amy Babish: Yeah, yeah. So that this is the entanglement. There might be other entanglements too, but this is the entanglement with your great grandmother. So you can say, I belong to your human doing and to your never enoughness.
Kacy Fleming: I belong to your human doing and never enoughness. Yeah, that's true.
Amy Babish: Yeah. And what happens is, you know, in many different wisdom traditions, the bigger the intention, the equal and opposite of the entanglement. And so no matter what we do. Like I want to be the human being. I want to be a human being. I want it to be enough like the outcome. The entanglement is like a rubber band. It's hidden in plain sight.
Amy Babish: And when we're entangled, it comes into our present life. So time after time you're exhausted. Time after time you're resentful. Time after time you are living her experience, her lived experience in Austria in current day modern times. So this, one of the, one of the gifts of constellation work is that Western psychology, a lot of western processes make it about the individual and, or the individual and their parents. Like what your parents could have done differently. And it's not to say that, you know, if there was abuse or anything, like we're not, that's not this. But it's not like you don't have to have different beliefs on that.
Amy Babish: That's not what's going to soothe the entanglement. So this takes the pressure off of. There's something that Kacy is doing wrong.
Kacy Fleming: It does feel better. And I, and I don't, I don't blame my dad. Like he, I can always see it in him. It's really easy for me to see it in their children.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: And where it comes from. I didn't really think back like I'm thinking back today. But it's, it's easier to understand mentally. Right. At the mind level, the. In watching it, how it plays out in the three of their lives, the three kids lives. It was, I can see it play out. And my grandma, by the time she was grandma, she was grandma.
Kacy Fleming: Right. So I, I didn't see the stories that they tell and that their lived experience of that, you know.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: And I feel it. I'm so proud of her. I'm proud of all of them. I feel like I carry that part of it always. But the pain and the shame.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: It's heavy. Is really heavy.
Amy Babish: Yeah. You can say to her, I belong to the pain and shame of never enoughness that you carry. Yeah. And what happens in an entanglement when we belong to that we can't be in our present life. So when you spoke about not being able to be present, we are literally entangled in an unconscious systemic field and we can't be present to our present life because this is where our belonging lives. This is where our loyalty lives. So there's no amount of like mantra. There's no amount of meditation when we are in an entanglement.
Amy Babish: So getting. Going deeper into this process. It's going to help Us get her some relief and get you some. Some relief. Okay. So I have a deep sense that also this did not start with her. This. This flavor of it might have started with her.
Amy Babish: But we're gonna invite her, and you and I will too, be there. We're going to ask her to show us the context of when this started. So it might not be clear. It might not be like, oh, it's my 10th great grandmother. It might not show you that, but it will give you. Sometimes it's a feeling, sometimes it's a visual. But you're gonna. We're gonna be in that context.
Kacy Fleming: I'm just getting like a man's face. Like a man's face and like a suit jacket. Like a very pose picture. Like, no fields, no house, no nothing. Just like almost like a portrait. Like a. Like if you were walking through an art gallery. You know, those paintings with a frozen in time person.
Kacy Fleming: I'm seeing a man's face and a black jacket with a white collar. And he is posed kind of to the side. Like I'm getting a profile.
Amy Babish: Okay. So we can ask. We can ask the image, you know, who, who, who am.
Kacy Fleming: So I hear the phrase my great, great, great grandmother's father. Not too three.
Amy Babish: Three. Okay.
Kacy Fleming: Great great, great grandmothers.
Amy Babish: Okay. And so we're gonna. We're gonna tune. See if he's able to share anything with you that lets you know the context of what was lost for him or confused or omitted.
Kacy Fleming: Well, I feel a very weird release in my chest and a very tingly feeling in my head. And I again, don't know if it's my mind or if it's him, but I feel a fear of being Jewish, a fear of being persecuted, a fear of like a desire to fit in, to assimilate, to not lose something. Like there's like something there. I don't know what it is. I don't know whether it's a job or it's wealth or if it's. I don't get the sense that he is wealthy or super wealthy. I get the sense that there's a. There's something there that he's terrified to lose and it's tied to his religious identity.
Amy Babish: Yeah, Yeah. I also. I also feel it's. It's of a time where it. I'm not sure, you know, which era we're in, but it feels like it could be early 1800s, early 1700s, sometime between those hundred years. I feel like that's where we are. And what I am sensing is like, wherever he is he's in a community that he has to really only be Jewish in the Jewish community and conceal his identity, his. His true, like his essence.
Amy Babish: He has to conceal it outside of the Jewish community. Does that land, as I say that?
Kacy Fleming: Yes, yes.
Amy Babish: So when we, when we start to tune into that, our next step is to bring in a resource. And so the resource usually is something that it's outside of our own consciousness because we're, we're entangled with the ancestor who didn't have it. So when we tune in, sometimes the systemic field is going to reveal it to you. Or sometimes our ancestor can be like, I wish I would have had this. So we're going to go in and it's, it can be many, many different things. So wherever your great, great great grandfather is revealing himself to you, you're going to allow that resource to come in behind him. Okay. And if, if you need help, you.
Kacy Fleming: I see a woman holding him while he cries. Okay.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I have no idea who she is.
Amy Babish: Okay. And how old is he in this, in this layer?
Kacy Fleming: I think he's like 40s or 50s. It's hard because, you know, everybody looks older.
Amy Babish: Yeah, Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I would say he's somewhere I'm getting in my ear, like between 32 and 45. That's what I'm hearing.
Amy Babish: Okay. So we're going to invite him to fully, kind of be embraced and release all the grief he's carried. For you are in his lineage around having to conceal his essence, not being able to be fully Jewish, being terrified of being found out and losing his life or losing his home, losing his job. And those terrors aren't just his. They're all of the lineages that came before him. And so he can, however he needs to receive that support and that compassion and that witnessing from that woman. He might lay in her lap. He might just really be held by her and she can give, give him kind of the, the support and the dignity and the respect and the recognition that he is worthy and that the world is confused and she might have her own things to say.
Kacy Fleming: I keep hearing, it's okay, let go. You're not. You don't have to control this.
Amy Babish: Yeah, yeah. She can say to him, I know we've been disconnected, but I am here and I'm big enough. I'm your ancestral line. I'm here to support you. I'm here to take back the terror that we've all lived. We've all lived through. I'm here to take back the never enoughness, the dehumanization and depersonalization of being Jewish.
Kacy Fleming: I hear him sobbing.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. And she can just encourage him to, like, she. She has the ancestral line with her, so she can absorb all of it. She can. As she receives the tears, as she embraces him. It's as if she's composting or alchemizing the unfelt grief, the unfelt shame. The place where I had nowhere to go, it landed in you as a descendant.
Amy Babish: Yeah. And what happens for you?
Kacy Fleming: I still feel a little shame that I've allowed it to go continue on with me. Yeah.
Amy Babish: And we're. We're still not done. So that's. That's. That. That's the entanglement. Right. So his.
Amy Babish: Your great great great grandfather's sense of. I couldn't control this. I should have been. It wasn't enough. Like those words. The entanglement goes. Goes back to him, not just. Not just his daughter.
Amy Babish: So we're going to go and do another layer. And so this time we're going to bring in. It's kind of imagining a line behind you, so both of your parents and your dad will be on your right side, behind your right shoulder, and your mom will be behind your left shoulder. And then seeing. Seeing both. Both lines kind of go back like that funnel, and they stagger so you can see everybody's face. And your great great grandfather still being. He's still receiving that embrace from that ancestral line, that paternal ancestral.
Amy Babish: And what do you notice as you begin to. To tune into them, Kacy?
Kacy Fleming: I sense a fire like burn. Warm.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. And we're going to just invite that ancestral resource, that woman that came in, we're going to invite her because she's. She's an alchemical resource. We're going to invite her in whatever way her. Her gifts, her resource come through that. She's going to send that support, that tending, that ability to absorb the never enoughness, the confusion that it's one person's responsibility, allowing her to absorb that. Beginning with your great, great great grandfather, all the way down to you and I.
Amy Babish: I believe you have children. So all the way down to your children, you have your. You have your. Your pets. Yes, they sometimes are representatives.
Kacy Fleming: They're my children.
Amy Babish: Yes. Yeah. So inviting that. That flow of life, that flow of resource all the way down it. What happens for you?
Kacy Fleming: I just. I felt like arms, giant arms reaching out all the way around the funnel. I felt my dad fighting it, my mom just being bearded out by the whole thing.
Amy Babish: That's okay. It's not her line. That's That's. That's normal. That's normal. Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: That's what I felt.
Amy Babish: Yeah. And so we're gonna have you turn in your mind's eye and face the line, really focusing on your paternal lineage with your dad and looking at your dad and saying, I can see you as a whole person now. If that feels resonant, I see the suffering and the enormous sense of terror in fear of being a whole person that you came from. I see the ancient roots in dehumanizing Jewish people, including the Jews in our lineage and yours and mine. I see how you had to dull down, omit or obscure the wholeness of who you really are. And all of that also lives in me. And what happens now?
Kacy Fleming: We give each other a big hug.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. Let yourself receive.
Kacy Fleming: It's the kind of hug I've always wanted from him that I've never gotten.
Amy Babish: Yeah. You can say to him, thank you for letting me see you. And if it feels. I don't know if this is part of it, but if it feels like you need to forgive him or whatever you need to say to him, if it feels true, I'm willing to receive the love that's always been there but has been cut off because you had to tell who you really were. The love got shut down by the terror and the never enoughness and the fear of being your whole self for generations. And he might pull to say, the love of our. Of our lineage comes through my heart to you in this embrace, the enoughness, the true essence of being who you really are. I don't have to fight to love you anymore.
Amy Babish: I don't have to fight to love myself. I can be in this present moment with you with ease and grace. It's safe for us to be here together. It. What happens. What happens for you now?
Kacy Fleming: I snot. My nose runs like crazy and I cry.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I feel the mind wanting to get involved.
Amy Babish: That's okay. That's okay.
Kacy Fleming: This is amazing. But he will never do that. But I also hear my mind telling me it's enough. You just need to know. You need to understand. You can't change what somebody else is or has done. You can only change how you are.
Amy Babish: We can receive. We can receive. Yeah. Are you ready for the last layer?
Kacy Fleming: Sure.
Amy Babish: Okay. It might be the last letter, so I don't want to disrespect your ancestors. We'll see. They might. They might pop up. So you're going to again, kind of turn around. See the whole line? Your father's right in front of you and you can say in your own words, however it feels resonant. I come from people who've had to conceal who they really are, their full essence through Jewishness, who couldn't be present because they were terrified of being killed, of losing their job, of losing their home, of losing everything.
Amy Babish: In the present moment, I see that that lives intergenerationally through my father and through me. I now take my life back. I take my life back from the whole system. I found my place, and I see that I'm the little one amongst this whole line. I take my life back to live into the present moment as I am fully enough in my full humanity. I step into the present moment with grace and ease. I'm willing to live my fullest life as your descendant on my own terms, both personally, professionally, in both of my businesses. And I will always remember how to straighten my own crown and fully receive from others.
Amy Babish: And when you're ready, you can turn around so that you're facing out. And so just feel all that support behind you from the resource, from that ancient ancestor, ancestral lineage that came in as the resource. Feel it behind you all the way down. You might feel on your shoulders, your back, and then look out into this new terrain. Now that you've taken your life back, just let yourself take in what's possible now. It might be a feeling. You might see things. It might be an just something new might come into your awareness.
Amy Babish: And when you're ready, you can say to them, I always welcome you here. I always welcome you into my present life so that I can live my life with your support. I don't have to do it alone anymore. Anything else you need to say to them or they want to say to you? Anything else?
Kacy Fleming: No, they're just clapping and they're telling me to go, yeah, yeah. Kind of this waving motion, like, go, yeah, yeah. All I saw was blue. Like blue sky. Like, just go, yeah, yeah. And a castle behind. Way back, way behind them. I don't think theirs.
Kacy Fleming: I just think it was someplace that this started.
Amy Babish: Yeah. The historical context. Yeah. Which would be another layer for another time. In case they're wondering that's. We did a big layer today. So when we're complete, we just thank them and you can welcome them to have contact with you. Whatever way feels meaningful and that, you know, for some people, this is just the beginning.
Kacy Fleming: Okay.
Amy Babish: Yeah. So you might want to take a sip of water.
Kacy Fleming: My puppies are trying to come here.
Amy Babish: Yeah, they received the transmission too. Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: You want to come here one and the other One is, you want to come here? He's like, no, I want to go outside, mommy.
Amy Babish: Oh. So getting kisses.
Kacy Fleming: Thank you.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: Oh, I know, I know.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: No, he does not want to come here. He's looking at me.
Amy Babish: He's like. That was a big process. That was a big process.
Kacy Fleming: I've had enough. I need to go to the bathroom. Yeah. Oh, I know. You're a good boy. Thank you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Amy Babish: So how are you feeling?
Kacy Fleming: Is it odd to say relieved and heavy at the same time?
Amy Babish: Yeah, like, there's a lot. There's a lot happening.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah, I realized I carried that much.
Amy Babish: Yep. Yeah, yeah, it's in. It's. You know, we say around this it's hidden in plain sight, but it lives in us epigenetically. It lives in our physical body, emotional body, spiritual body, energetic body, our thoughts. And instead of like having rose colored glasses, we have ancestral colored glasses. When we're in an entanglement and we just think it's us and it's not. Yeah, yeah.
Kacy Fleming: I didn't wear a lot of mascara.
Amy Babish: So the. One of the things I like to really reinforce around this work is, like, with many modalities, there's usually like homework or practice or things like that. When you do a layer like this, it just starts to integrate. And so you don't have to come and revisit the podcast when it's published. You don't have to revisit the recording. It lives in you now. It lives in the system. And so there's really nothing to do.
Amy Babish: You might find yourself really savoring blue sky days. At some point that might kind of resonate in your system, but it's. It will unfold with integration in its own kind of way, in its own process.
Kacy Fleming: And I feel like lighter but a.
Amy Babish: Lot in my throat.
Kacy Fleming: So lighter but choked up.
Amy Babish: Yeah, yeah.
Kacy Fleming: Like I have processing of what just happened.
Amy Babish: Yeah, yeah. There's. There's oftentimes many layers. And so this was. This was the first layer that your system wanted to support you with. And so in our throat, you know, unresolved grief, unresolved things that we haven't been able to fully speak our truth or we've held back inconvenient truths. That's sometimes what happens for people. When we're starting to work with ancestors.
Kacy Fleming: Right now with what is happening in the world. There are a lot of people who might be feeling the fear. The same fear.
Amy Babish: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's so much terror. We're both in the US we have A very complex four years ahead of us. And so many different people with so many different lineages are feeling terrified and globally, many people who are always in a situation like this. So even though we spoke to your specific lineage today, I didn't know my phone was on. Sorry about that. That's maybe the systemic field saying you're on the money here. Many people, no matter what your lineage is, this is something especially when you listen to the podcast, you can pause the podcast and substitute it for the.
Amy Babish: The specifics that feel resonant to your field because it's very relevant for many, many different people's historical and systemic context. Cultural context, too.
Kacy Fleming: It's a lot to process. And I think there had been so much energy trying to prevent where we are now. I felt really, I've lately felt exhausted and like nothing that I can do makes a dent in this. But this helped me see this is not the first time.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: Probably won't be the last time. And I have dogs, but not children, so I don't pass the trauma on in the line. It's interesting. My sister and I both chose not to have children and that there's only one grandchild on that side of the line. Not all the way back, but like, you know, on my direct side. My cousin has a child, but everybody else does not. Yeah, it's. It's a lot.
Kacy Fleming: It's a, It's a lot that we carry, that everyone carries. It's not like we're unique or special. And I would argue that in many ways, because of the concealment, we're more fortunate in some ways and less fortunate in others.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: So a lot to process. Not something I think about on the daily. Like I don't think about my identity as a Jewish woman very much. I just, I don't. I, I feel the pain and the trauma and the fear, but just trying to do good work in the world for women, not caring who they are or where they come from or what their background is. And it's so tempting to kind of push those deep seated traumas aside as well. It's not my life and it's not. We're not there.
Kacy Fleming: And. But this four years or this new reality has taught me that we are exactly where we always were and always have been and always will be. And there's no amount of concealment or holding on that's going to change it. It's just, it's the way the system is that gives me a little piece.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. The more that we can, we can name the the wholeness, it lets us actually be in the present moment. And that's when the present moment can change.
Kacy Fleming: I also feel the guilt and the shame of being, you know, white and not having people be able to tell by looking at me exactly what I am, unless they're stereotyping or making assumptions or any of those things. And I feel like I shouldn't be entitled to the grief and the terror and the shame and the pain and the fear. But that's just not true. That's not the lived experience of my family and the family of so many. And I think denying that is problematic for moving forward. That's not to say there isn't work to do in understanding of other people and other cultures, of other suffering and other patterns and other terror, but it's not an exercise in comparative suffering. And I think so often in society, it becomes that.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: And. And that we hold ourselves back from experiencing our whole humanity and trying to give more voice to one set of pain or set of terror set of hoarder. And it's just all scary and horrible and terrible and not life not being that modeling. Right. Like, I'm still a happy, functional person. It's just, I think there's a lot of fear of saying the wrong thing, of acknowledging pain and shame, of not recognizing the. The privileges that you have had and the benefits that you have had. Like the embarrassment I had over having a purchase title in my family, like.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: Is embarrassing to me. Right. In a way. And why, like, why was I embarrassed by that?
Amy Babish: Because it wasn't your. It wasn't your embarrassment.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it, and it, it makes so much sense, Amy, because when I step into these rooms now, or as my business starts to grow, when I meet really awesome, wonderful people doing amazing things, I never feel like I have a right to be there. I feel like I've bought it or I've, you know, forced it or I'm forcing it or I'm not worthy of. Of being in the rooms or with the people. And what has released for me is that that's just not true. No one is more worthy than anybody else.
Amy Babish: We're all equal humans.
Kacy Fleming: Yeah. And I know that. I know. Yeah. I know that I was raised that way, right, To. To treat everybody the same. And it's one of the greatest things that my poor dad that, you know, suffered in this way that I've tortured in my life, taught me best. My parents did a really great job of making me understand that everybody is worthy of love.
Kacy Fleming: Everybody is worthy of the Same level of attention, the same level whatever, regardless of their standing. And I'm grateful for that. But I kind of understand where that comes from a little bit more.
Amy Babish: Yeah.
Kacy Fleming: And it's letting me feel that same worthiness that I give to everybody else.
Amy Babish: Yeah. Yeah. And we didn't have time, you know, today to do this, but I'm going to name it for those who are listening. So when we do this kind of constellation work, we get into something that goes beyond blood lineage and soul lineage, which is the victim perpetrator bond. And so the victor perpetrator bond is the most intimate bond we carry. And that is what's playing out systemically in many, many places right now. And so when the victim perpetrator bond doesn't have its place in our system, we oftentimes are aligned more with the victim identity or more with the perpetrator identity. And this kind of work allows us to work not only with our blood lineage, but we can also work with the system itself.
Amy Babish: So that's really powerful, especially with everything that has gone on the past two years and the past thousands of years with your specific lineage and with many people who are listening.
Kacy Fleming: Well, thank you. This. This was really helpful, and I'm so glad. So I do have to say this about you, Amy, for anybody who's listening and who's skeptical. You know, like, I. I carry. I carry skepticism in my core. I think you all heard where it comes from, right? That tenacious, like, just do it.
Kacy Fleming: Like, you. You own this, and I. I don't stand back from that. Like, we do own our own success. You own our choices, and we do own the decision to keep going when things are hard or. Or to not. But Amy is magic. I don't say that lightly.
Kacy Fleming: I believe deeply in magic. And there are humans that just don't even feel like humans. They feel like magical sprites in the world. And, Amy, you're one of them. It feels like this is not work that I could have or would have undertaken with anyone else. It is terrifying to me not to reveal my identity, because I think people know who I am. I think I'm clear about it. But to go that deep into the pain of the identity and the fears that I hold and, Amy, is just so comforting.
Kacy Fleming: And you can't know what the experience is like until you do it. I think it's. It's the same thing with your house therapy. Like. Like I'm just gonna say this at all. Intellectually for us, it all sounds like a bunch of hokum. If you are skeptic if you are human. Right.
Kacy Fleming: We're just taught to believe on a very three dimensional level and not dip into that which is our, you know, metaphysics and ancestral lineage and epigenetics and all those things. But I highly recommend when you're ready to release something or you need, you feel like something is getting in your way to talk to Amy because she will figure out what it is really quickly and very frighteningly, you'll be grateful for it. So thank you for, you know, just your spirit and for helping me heal some of my crap. There's a lot more, I'm sure, but there's layers, layers of garbage in the system. But, but no, that's, that's really a gift. And I hope you all, you know, listening, consider what it is that you want to heal and taking action with whoever feels like the right person for you.
Amy Babish: Thank you so much, Kacy. I think almost anybody who comes to work with me has like some really, like some ancestors that are highly skeptical. Like, and, and part of the way I work is that no, no one is omitted. Nothing is omitted. And so you don't have to be not skeptical to work with me. Like, that actually lets me know that your ancestors are willing to work is when they bring their skepticism because they're here. They're letting us know that they're here because that skepticism comes from a lot of trauma, usually a lot of real, real pain. And so for many people in many lineages, it's the disconnection from the, from the mystery or from magic or from something sacred like the land or trees or whatever that was in ancient times, that war or genocide or empire or pillaging or horrific things said we have to conceal this.
Amy Babish: We have to. Oh man. That we can't be connected to this anymore. So I respect the skepticism. So thank you so much for your trust. Thank you so much for your willingness, Kacy. And for those of you who are tuning in, I love for you to leave me a rating and comments. Let me know what you'd like to hear more of.
Amy Babish: And if you'd like to work with me, you can book a 90 minute session and the link is in the show notes. Thank you so much. Until next time, take gentle care and just tune into your field. That's all for this episode of the Soulful Visionary podcast. If you found value in today's episode and are ready to delve deeper into aligning your inner world and environment, please subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Your subscription helps us to reach more soulful visionaries like yourself. And if you've been inspired by what you heard, I'd be incredibly grateful if you could leave a review. Your feedback not only helps others discover this podcast, but also guides me in creating content that truly resonates with you.
Amy Babish: I'll catch you in the next episode as we continue to unlock the love, purpose and fulfillment you deeply crave.