Taboo Queer Love & Evasive Romantic Partnership
“I want to explore what may be held in my ancestral story or constellation around intimacy, partnership, receiving romantic love, and gently untangle anything that may be creating resistance.”
Today’s guest on the podcast is Thami from South Africa. We’ve known each other for over 4 years and Thami has done a bit of constellation work and somatic work with me already.
And while I wish in my heart of hearts I could be with her in person for this session, it’s just as meaningful and powerful virtually.
In this session, Thami’s intention was very clearly around finding romantic love and healthy partnership. We go back to alchemical constellation work, which we haven’t had on the podcast in a bit! May this conversation be of service to you or someone you care about.
You’ll especially want to tune into this client session if you, too:
» feel nervous at the thought of doing this kind of work
» sense there may be something influencing your experience of romantic partnership
» have grief, pain, frustration around not having romantic love and partnership yet
» never found anyone in your family you could relate to
» may be aware of forbidden love in your ancestry
Topics covered in this podcast episode:
Thami’s intention for her session with Amy
How the theme of forbidden love is woven throughout Thami’s lineage
What Amy sometimes experiences before client sessions with the systemic field
When Thami’s ancestor first showed up in her work with Amy
How your ancestors may speak to you on a regular basis
The unique way Amy brings in historical context to client sessions
How Thami’s been living out this ancestral entanglement
Different ways ancestral entanglements are unwoven
Thank you to Thami and this ancestor and to your field for this journey around unlocking romantic queer love, magnetism, and partnership.
For those of you listening, whatever has been locked away or hidden or omitted, I hope that you received something as well.
Thank you for joining us and being a part of this journey!
To explore your own alchemical constellation process or if you’re interested in joining an upcoming retreat, email at: amy@amybabish.com
If this episode resonates, please leave a review on your favorite platform and share this episode with those who you think might benefit.
Until we meet again, I'm sending blessings from the Doeg land I steward.
Resources:
The unedited podcast transcript for this episode of The Soulful Visionary Podcast follows
Amy Babish:
Welcome to the Soulful Visionary Podcast. I'm your host, Amy Babish, and I have a very amazing guest today who I've known for a little over 4 years, and I welcome in Thami from South Africa.
Thami:
Hello, hello, hello, hello.
Amy Babish:
So happy to be here and nervous, very nervous, but It's really good to name that because I think there's a lot of trepidation when doing this kind of work and then to do it on a podcast willingly.
Thami:
Yeah, absolutely.
Amy Babish:
I have a flutter in my chest. I feel it too every time I do this. So even though I'm not the one receiving the work, I still feel vulnerable. Yeah, it's on both sides. It's on both sides. Before we began recording, Thami and I were talking and she had the question, I think that's important for our listeners. Because a lot of people that are curious about doing this kind of work with me, they ask, do I need to be a seer? Like, do I need to see things? And the answer is no. Thami's question was, do I need to be able to, like, talk to my ancestors out loud to do this work, or can I do it internally? And I shared that it's really dependent on Thami's field, Thami's ancestors. So I don't have, like, a one-size-fits-all approach to anything. It's really like, what does the person in front of me really need? What is most supportive for you? And what is most supportive for your systemic field? And so we then kind of came to the conclusion that we would just play it, literally play it by ear.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
See what happens.
Thami:
Yeah. Yeah, that feels right.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And Thami has done a bit of constellation work with me already and somatic work. She's been on retreats with me in South Africa. So we know each other through many different contexts. in many different ways. Um, and, um, I wish from my heart of hearts that I could be there right now with you in South Africa recording this. But, um, you know, we, we are different, different parts, different hemispheres, different experiences in this, um, shared sacred moment. Um, so when, when I ask someone to be on the podcast, I invite them to fill out a form so I kind of have a sense of things. And some people, you know, they do the best they can, and it's like 2 lines. Thami went for it.
Thami:
So I love it.
Amy Babish:
I love it. It was— I love that word. I love that phrase. It was— if you don't know a lot about South African culture, hectic is a word that can be used in many different ways. So you might hear Thami say it and it has a different meaning with intonation and context. So it's one of my favorite words.
Thami:
That's cool. That's cool to hear. Yeah, I use it too many times actually, but it just fits For some reason. It does.
Amy Babish:
It's, it's, it's a really important word. Um, so I'm gonna— I'm actually gonna share what you wrote because I feel that so many people listening are gonna resonate with it. And it might not be about the subject you're talking about, but it might be about another part of their life. Some people will fill it with the subject area that we're gonna work on with you, with your intention. Um, but I think other people kind of have this experience of really wanting and desiring something, and then like they see like glimmers or little sparkles of it, and then it just doesn't pan out.
Thami:
Hmm.
Amy Babish:
So, um, this is what she wrote: I'd like to explore through ancestral and constellation work any entanglements or patterns that may be influencing my experience of romantic love and partnership. And even as I start to, to say it, I just feel in my heart of hearts Knowing you all these years and knowing your journey, I want this for you. Like, I'm just starting to tear up. Like, you're such an incredible person, and I can't change the outcome. I can't change what's happened to you and with you and with your ancestors. But I feel that a lot of potentiality today. There's more, folks. And I'll be starting to tear up too.
Thami:
Yeah, yeah, I feel, I feel that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, it's very sacred and holy work, and I'm not able to see before we go in what it, what it is, um, but it's, it's something quite— it's, it's, it's a something. Yeah, so that there's a couple paragraphs, I'm just going to read them all because I think it's important. I think it's important for your field. I think it's important for your ancestors to know. I'm sure some of them can be read in to everything you wrote. They were there behind your shoulders as you typed it.
Thami:
Absolutely. Absolutely.
Amy Babish:
But there's others who don't know, and I think the whole field needs to hear it. Um, whenever I witness people exchanging love in a romantic sense, something deep in me awakens. There's a strong desire to experience that kind of love for myself. Sometimes I can embrace that desire and allow myself to feel it fully. While at other times it brings frustration or resistance. I'm curious about what sits underneath that tension. For much of my life, I've carried the narrative that perhaps the right person would simply arrive at the right time. And I want to say as a sidebar, me too. Hashtag many people.
Thami:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Babish:
And another point, I came to believe that I was somehow quote unquote chosen for a life of singleness. And I accepted the story for quite some time. I think a lot of people can resonate with that too. Through the work I've done on myself, however, I've begun to recognize that this understanding of singleness no longer feels aligned with what I genuinely desire.
Thami:
Mm-hmm.
Amy Babish:
I want to explore what may be held in my ancestral story or constellation around intimacy, partnership, receiving romantic love, and gently untangle anything that may be creating resistance. Ultimately, I would love to open more fully to the possibility of experiencing romantic love as a part of the fullest fullness of being human, not from a place of lack or urgency, but from a genuine willingness to receive and participate in it.
Thami:
Hmm.
Amy Babish:
I have had many flirtatious connections with people, but these somehow never really develop into anything solid. So this is moving something in the field just as we name it. What happens for you as you hear me speak it back to you?
Thami:
Yeah, I think, I mean, when you first started reading the first sentences with articulating a desire for it, and I think witnessing love and witnessing People enjoy romantic love. That's something that, like I said, I went on many journeys with trying to figure out what my story is. And I ended up just as a form of escaping the feeling with just choosing a narrative around maybe I'm not, I'm not somebody in this lifetime who's meant to experience that. And there were like, there was a very genuine journey of just accepting, quote unquote, that, but definitely wrestling with the desire and it definitely being provoked whenever I'd witness that. And so I think, I think I feel a lot of grief and pain, or I feel a lot of frustration, many things just around and questions around, you know, why me? Like, that's a very big prayer thing or like thing or question I'd bring up a lot of the time. Why can't I have access or why can't I experience this beautiful thing? And, you know, I found my ways to experience love through many other forms. Friendships are massive in my life. In fact, I'm like advocate for like romanticizing and like, and, you know, just going all out with relationships that have felt the most natural. They happen very naturally around me. But, and I'm grateful to have beautiful friends who have been able to just express, you know, love, you know, within that kind of like setup. But definitely still felt this part of me very present but untapped. And so, yeah, yeah.
Amy Babish:
I feel that deeply in knowing you all these years. I think I've witnessed the evolution of that too. Yeah, I witnessed the version that was not known but not named that was kind of really held back. Yeah, really full-on with friendships. And yeah, the other— you have so many expressions of, of, um, passion and creativity and fullness and aliveness in so much of your life.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And just kind of like a gentle question mark, like you didn't ask for help on it, wasn't my business. So I just kind of sit in curiosity myself. So this feels like a lot of bravery that you've done so much work on this and Now you're asking for help in a different way. You're ready to have a different, different level of support on it. So this is your intention. You want— you're ready for partnership. You're ready for like a really full, healthy, full-on romantic, romantic love, romantic partner.
Thami:
Yep. Is there anything else?
Amy Babish:
Anything else you want to throw in there?
Thami:
I think I'm very used to this part of me being extremely private. And, you know, there's a big element of this part of me not being known because I've just never really been in a relationship. And a big part of it is also just navigating my sexuality and queerness and a lot of the singleness narrative and many other narratives were connected to like religious contexts that kind of perpetuated the narrative around singleness and all of that. So I think a big part of my life is kind of like, felt like it became quite stagnant and like untapped, especially just queerness in every aspect, including my sexuality. And it feels like when I started doing work with constellations and just somatic therapy and therapy in general, I began to see a lot of movement in general with with many things around expansiveness and expansion. And yeah, it feels like, I don't know, it's like if I could use an analogy of like, or metaphor of like a picture. You take a picture with a camera that's got low contrast and it's just bland. And then you take another picture and you edit it and it's just crisp, clear. It feels like my life is just, significantly opened up and there's so much more breath and light and color and vibrancy in many aspects. But I just haven't tapped into this part of my life that I feel, yeah, it has been stagnant because of all these things. So I feel Yeah. Yeah, there's a mixture of immense grief, but also immense expectation and excitement. But it's just like, need to crack the thing. And I remember saying the exact same thing with many other things, like with our constellation some time ago, and it felt like there was so much movement. So it's just again, this knot that has been tied up within many things that I've been just pulling at. But in this moment, it feels so pronounced. And at the same time, I feel there's grief, but then there's so much support, I feel, in some ways that it I think there's connections with just worthiness as well, that I— it's just like there's an abundance thing that's tapping on the door being like, girl, let's get it. So yeah, I'm very keen to just like, yeah, like grab the gift. Yeah, so yeah, to take it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Babish:
And You know, as you spoke so honestly and so powerfully, you know, I, I just hear that this, this is somehow related to forbidden love. Not that your love is forbidden, but there was a forbidden love in your ancestry. And even as I say it, a lot of energy happens, um, and that the church created confusion in this lifetime for you around it.
Thami:
Absolutely.
Amy Babish:
Contributed. So, um, which is a very painful narrative for many people, especially for queer folk. Um, and that, you know, just when you did your constellation with the group, you were so scared and you were so ready and you were so kind of at— I would say like at your wit's ends with things.
Thami:
Mm-hmm.
Amy Babish:
And it moved so much. Your field was so willing, your ancestors were so willing, and it was a huge, huge, huge piece of work for the group and for you. And I can feel today it's a different kind of work we're doing, but I also feel like the enormity of it.
Thami:
Mm-hmm.
Amy Babish:
And, um, you know, sometimes the field or the ancestors will, um, speak to me through my body, and I can feel in my body that some kind of like massive betrayal is related to this because the back of my heart is really Like being pushed on. And yeah, I can— there's a lot of emotion that I can feel, you know, before we started, it wasn't here. And now it's here. So I know it's, it's, it's your field. And it feels also to name that whoever this ancestor is, they love nature as much as you do.
Thami:
Really?
Amy Babish:
And they love, like, the sweetness of life. And I felt like I was in their field this morning.
Thami:
Wild.
Amy Babish:
So I, I took a big hike this morning, and it's— we're at the end of summer when we're recording this in the Northern Hemisphere. It's the end of winter for you. And so here outside of Washington, it's like this morning it was was cooler and you could smell what I— it smells like vivider to me, like the leaves are starting to decompose. And it was one of the most quiet hikes I've had in a long time. And I hike almost every day here. And my dog was with me and it was a 4-mile hike. And I felt like I could see the interwovenness of things in a different way. And then when I came home, It's like a very gentle sunlight here. And I felt like I was really in your field of just like savoring and relishing in the beauty of the mystery. Like, this is such a beautiful and awestruck experience to be human.
Thami:
Yep, absolutely. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And this ancestor feels like it too. And then I could also feel the grief because I felt for 5 days like I was going to cry. And I, I just couldn't cry. And I felt— I— it's partly my own story, but I know when I do something like this, um, I'm with other people's fields. So I'm always asking whose field is it? And now I know it's, it's the ancestors' field, their ancestors' field. Um, and I checked a number of times before, you know, as, as you expressed interest, and then today, um, We're with an ancestor on your, on your father's side.
Thami:
Hectic.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah. It's a woman. It's a woman on your dad's side. I don't know how far back, but I, I feel it's far back. So she was not— that was all she was willing to tell me. And it was when I sat down. I had been busy, had other clients this morning, and then when I sat down About a half hour before we started recording, I could feel she was really ready, and I could feel she was taking my office in. And, um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull something off. The, the listeners won't be able to see it, but you'll, you'll be able to see it, and we could talk about it.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
So another podcast guest, um, recently sent me a little, little gift package to thank me. And, um, this is one of the things that she sent me. It's a candle of 2 figures, a beeswax candle of 2 figures who are naked hugging.
Thami:
And it's very cool.
Amy Babish:
It could be friends, it could be— yeah, androgynous people. There's not really— they have really— they're really full-bodied figures. They're really like embracing and embracing and being embraced.
Thami:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And it's— I haven't lit it yet, but it's been on my altar over here, and I can feel that your ancestor was very interested in this.
Thami:
That's very interesting.
Amy Babish:
I'm going to leave it here on my desk.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
While we record. But it's quite exquisite and quite beautiful, and I feel it's part of this ancestor's story. And for her to see it here, you know, it's— it means something to her.
Thami:
Sure, that's wild.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, so yeah, a lot, a lot of energy. Anything you want to name before we go to the next layer?
Thami:
I mean, I think when you said my dad's side, I was not necessarily shocked because I feel like There's a lot of resistance from that side of my family and a lot of mysterious, like many, yeah, lots of stories that I don't know about. And yeah, for some reason it feels right. Yeah, it feels, it matches, yeah, what I feel.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And this ancestor, she also brought into my awareness something I haven't thought about for a long time. She was there at the first retreat.
Thami:
Really?
Amy Babish:
And she definitely said to me before— I was kind of feeling the breeze was coming in so powerfully when I sat down. I was like, wow, this is unusual because I know the breeze is in my area. This breeze was coming from a certain way. So now I know it was her. And she brought to my memory something that you and another woman, a couple of women said to me after we did the retreat. Um, you said something and you were just so like forthright and honest and like heartfelt to me. You gave me some feedback and you said, if I would have had a different background, I would have been considered to be a witch doctor.
Thami:
Absolutely. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Oh, she's like hand raised. She's like, I was there for that.
Thami:
Really? Oh my gosh.
Amy Babish:
In so long.
Thami:
That's so wild.
Amy Babish:
So she, she was there. So she wants you to know that she's, she's been with you every step of the way.
Thami:
Wow.
Amy Babish:
And that brings a lot of emotion. Um, but she was proud of you for, um, being forthright with me. You're not just like going along with it like you're being asked. Um, so I think we're ready.
Thami:
Yeah, I didn't— I was just gonna say, I didn't know that she was there. I mean, I'm very surprised that— because, you know, part of the things that come up when I talk with friends about, uh, what has become a rhythm of just chatting with my ancestors, usually it will be like plural and it will be like faceless. For the most part, because I'm like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, but I'm just going to say things. You know, I felt immense support in ways I can't describe. And I've never been able to identify. I mean, there's one, my grandfather from my dad's side for sure. But like, I've never felt like I had, like, yeah, especially like a woman. Yeah. So I'm very, very intrigued. I'm very— yeah, I'm going to sit with that for some time. Yeah, yeah.
Amy Babish:
And, you know, with all of the people that I work with, many people are not seers, and ancestors sometimes come in the ways that they want to come. So some ancestors will reveal things through, um, our, our vision, our second or third vision, but other ancestors come through music. They come through, you know, symbols and signs and They come through books, and they come in the ways that we can receive them.
Thami:
Hmm.
Amy Babish:
And as you name it, I also feel that this ancestor might be different, that she might want to give you something specific. Because, you know, they're not— you know, you know this, but for the listeners, ancestors are not a monolith. And they have the same kind of individual choice that we have as humans. And so While a lot of your paternal ancestry might not want to reveal their face or be more specific to you, I have a sense that she's willing to cultivate a relationship with you.
Thami:
Wow, that's wild.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, and she's really pushing on my spleen, so it's like, get with the intent. Spleen manages intentions. It's like, get with the intentions, lady.
Thami:
Oh, wild. Okay, she's on a mission.
Amy Babish:
She's ready, she's ready for help too. Sure.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
Okay. So she knows the intention, your field knows the intention. So we're going to go and do a tune-in. So we're going to tune into the frequency of wherever this began for her. And she might be willing to let us know, me know, you know, how far back she is.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
How many generations. So we might get different puzzle pieces of it. So we'll do it. And then when you're ready, you can just kind of share what you notice.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
What are you noticing, Thami?
Thami:
Sure. So in my body, I feel Immense, an immense amount of pressure, like from the bottom of my, like under my eyes to like the bottom of my, like what's my hip, like an immense, like it felt like there's like a weight, an immense weight. And then there was a moment where like I struggled to take a deep breath. So like I feel A lot of immense resistance, like I can't— like something is being pressed down onto me, or like it's hard to breathe.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
A lot of physical pressure, like chest down to Hip area, um, and like, yeah, stuckness, like pressure, something like I can't— there's no move, I can't move. Um, and then I also feel longing. And lots of pain in my chest.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
And lots of massive heaviness. Yeah. Like very painful. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Excruciating.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, I'm with a different— I'm with a different part of, um, her field, so she let me know that she's approximately 11 generations back.
Thami:
Wow.
Amy Babish:
So I, I, I did— I did do some math around it to make sure we're in the right place, and, um, we're approximately in the 1690s.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
And, um, She said that her tribe is important to you, but it's not a tribe that I know. So it doesn't mean that it has to be named in this moment, but just for— she said it will really matter to you.
Thami:
Mm-hmm.
Amy Babish:
Um, and, um, yeah, so I, I asked, do we need to know it now? And she says no. Uh, but she said you will, you will know it. Um, and she's letting me know as you're, as you're speaking that she was tortured. She was tortured for her desires, and it— they tried to break her heart to try, to try and change her. Like, they used physical, physical punishment.
Thami:
Yikes.
Amy Babish:
And I asked if that's what killed her, and she says no. And she was queer. And interesting, that wasn't forbidden, like, in a society at that time, but it's something about, like, her community. So as a whole, there were women with women. But something about— she's like, it's not tribe, but it's like the community. that she was in. And I ask her, it's not religion either. Um, and she says that this is in— when we're, when we're with her right now, she's in her 30s.
Thami:
Wild.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. And my heart is really feeling like how much she had to like kind of concealed. Like, she put her desires— it feels like she hid it deep inside of her heart so no one could find it. Um, so it feels like there was like another person that could like sense her, like sense her truth or her beingness, that was trying to like get it out of her. And she had to like hide it from them. So it wasn't a, it wasn't a person with good intentions, like whole intentions, I should say.
Thami:
They had—
Amy Babish:
that's the problem. They had good intentions for whatever the community was about, but it was not a whole intention. It was dehumanizing. So what happens as you hear what's going on with this ancestor.
Thami:
Yeah, I'm very shocked. I do resonate with the tribe thing. I'm surprised, but I'm also not surprised. The not surprised is for some reason I've had a curiosity about my tribe. It was mostly when my dad passed away. And then just naturally wanting to find a bit more information about where I come from and all of that. And yeah, there have been people around me who always— it's part of a greeting when you introduce yourself. And then it's always fun to just reiterate, like share your tribe. I feel connected to that, but I don't know a lot about how far that goes. But yeah, so that's interesting to me and very— yeah, like it matches. And yeah, I feel I resonate with this ancestor. It almost feels like— yeah, I definitely feel like I've embodied aspects of that. pain and suppression. And so I'm just very shocked because it's always felt like I've carried it alone, carried this. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
That I kind of missed the mark within my family. dynamic, because I don't think I know of anybody who ever— yeah, I guess I knew about the many secrets and all of that, but never really heard anything. So I've always felt like the creative, quote unquote, black sheep in the family and always doing my own thing. Never fully understood at all, but loved. And yeah, never really finding anybody that I could relate to within my family. So I felt like there are many parts now still that I don't feel are known within my family context. And so, yeah, causing a lot of disconnect in many ways. So I feel I'm very deeply surprised and— I think I'm just like processing this story like this. Yeah. It's very deep. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
So with, you know, with entanglements, it doesn't always go from like, you know, it's not one for one. Our parents don't give us the entanglements, right? And our grandparents don't give them. And this is like not to tell you what the truth is or not to tell anybody what the truth is, but the best way I can explain it is before we incarnate, we are like, these are the gifts and these are the challenges. And then these bloodlines come and they're like, hey, we have these challenges, can you help us? And yeah, your willingness, it's out of love that you take on the burden, the unresolved burden or the unresolved thing. So you, you, you told this ancestor, I've got you.
Thami:
Right.
Amy Babish:
I want to, I want to do this for you. And then, because we can't really fully— we don't remember what entanglement is when we're before we incarnate. So then we don't realize that we end up repeating their, their, their unfulfilled dream or their lived experience. And so it's quite painful. So even though it skipped 11 generations, it's, it's as if it's happening. Like, you're not being tortured physically like she was, but you, you have the emotional, the emotional pain.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
The agony. and excruciation. And she says, don't worry, there were other queer women in our tribes, but she's like, they were lost in history.
Thami:
Oh.
Amy Babish:
So she might be able to tell you more about that, but she kind of shows me like women popping out of the line and like waving their hands. Like, wow, there's at least, at least 7. And so when you think about that far back, I'm not really good at the math part of this, but, you know, she's, she's back here 11 generations, and then that's like one line of people horizontally. But then from that, it's not a funnel, it doesn't get smaller, it gets wider. So it multiplies. So you might, you might be, you know, ancestrally or genetically related to people who their line was like a lot of queer people. They got a lot of queer, a lot of queer, queer-identifying folks that were okay. It was safe for them to be fulfilled love, whereas other parts of the line took on other things from whatever that time was. So, um, so she shows me there's a scatter plot of close, close in with your— within your, um, direct stacks of ancestors.
Thami:
Sure.
Amy Babish:
So now we're going to ask her, um, what is it— what is most important for you to understand to be able to start to, like, as you, as you named in your intention, like, to unravel whatever this entanglement is? So there's going to be something that Like, we know a lot already, but there's something important that, um, we need to know before we can move forward. I can feel that. So we'll both kind of tune in again.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
What happens for you now? Yeah.
Thami:
Yeah, so the first thing I heard was her saying that this is— it's, it's not ours. Like, she's saying it's not ours anymore, kind of thing. And then the other thing I've heard was like, it's time to put it down.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. As you say that, it's like the She names it as like the hate, the confusion, the secrets, the like omitting, um, like the split self. And, and those were survival. And before you spoke, what I got was that Um, she hid her magnetism.
Thami:
Yo, that's wild.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, because I asked how— I asked how she died, and it wasn't quite it, but the first phrase I got was like, she died of unrequited love. And then she clarified with me. She's like, it's not that. She died because she had to hide how much she loved, and like, she wasn't allowed to attract the love that she wanted. So it was like she showed me like this energy that was like a magnet for like the most sumptuous, amazing love ever. And she, she, she had that. She emitted that. And whatever, whatever was of those times and of that community, it, it's, it's like the person that had the ability to say that they could find those things in people She literally had to hide it from that person. So it's like she showed me, like she put it into like a whatever kind of metal box where you can't feel magnets.
Thami:
Ew.
Amy Babish:
She locked it in her heart. So energetically she locked it in, and she did a, like, an energy process. Um, and she does want me to tell you that she was a healer. So she was not— she says not village, she was like a community healer. So she had her own gifts, but whoever this was was someone that said that they were in integrity, but they were really not. They were trying to make everybody under an agenda that was from someone in power. So sure, yeah. Yeah. So it, it feels like the two of you can, can like do an alchemical process to take out the vestiges of whatever that was. That's part one, because that's what she gave you. And then part two feels like We can help, um, take whatever kind of metal box this is out of her heart that's connected to your heart and open up the electromagnetic field, or what we know now in modern times is like the toroidal field of energy. Yeah, um, of magnetism.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
How does that feel?
Thami:
Yeah, that sounds, that sounds good with me. I'm, I will say, I, I'm, I'm like literally on fire. My body's like very hot.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
Heating up. And, um, yeah, anyway, I resonate deeply with, um, for some reason I've kind of always known that like, um, my fullness, like that's where, like the medicine is many things, but also just existing in my fullness. I've always romanticized it because I knew that I wasn't necessarily like completely, yeah, existing in that. So it makes absolute sense, the connection between that and then the healing. The gifts.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, it's like her— like, I get that she was just like a tremendous being, like, like just so like a— like, as you would say, like a gorgeous person. She's like a really gorgeous person.
Thami:
Like, that's wild.
Amy Babish:
Beautiful inside and out. And like, as the kids would say now, she's a vibe. She's a whole vibe. I can feel it. Yeah, yeah. Like, she's very— like, I could feel before all of that happened, she was just radiance. Yeah. And she, she knows your— she keeps on playing your music to me.
Thami:
Really?
Amy Babish:
Yeah. So she's, she's saying Every Step's a Story.
Thami:
Wild. That's wild.
Amy Babish:
Like, she's They give me sometimes very specific things.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And she's showing me the sun is really important to her for some reason. It's very like she keeps on showing me the sun with mountains in South Africa, like different kind of angles. So like she has me like my head is tilted. I'm looking at the skies with her. with the mountains. And she was just— she just says, like, before all of this, I was, I was one with a lot of things. And yeah, it feels for all that she's gone through, she can still remember who she was. She still knows, like, that's in there. And with ancestors who have experienced a lot of trauma, I ask, does she know she's dead? And she does. And so she's not, she's not as stuck as some ancestors are. Like, she knows that she's dead and, um, she's ready to be, be free. That's the difference.
Thami:
Oh yeah.
Amy Babish:
So we'll go into the liminal space, and she's telling me that to kind of get this heat out of your body, that you two might— you two might make music together.
Thami:
That's cool.
Amy Babish:
That you might sing it, you might sing it out, and she might do some gestures with you, or like— it's unclear, maybe I'm not read into the whole thing, but she— you're going to do something collaborative. It's a collaborative process, that's the right way to say it. And, um, she might use— like, I have a rattle on my desk that she's pointing towards. She might use different things to help the process for both of you of like getting it out between the spaces in the spell, the spaces in the cells and the energy, the energy body, um, and the auric body. She's going to invite you to collaborate on a process, um, at a place that you two both choose. Okay.
Thami:
Cool.
Amy Babish:
So you can go ahead and kind of go into the liminal space and, uh, see what happens. What are you two doing?
Thami:
I definitely feel her close, um, and for some reason, the— it feels Very peaceful.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
It's surprising because I thought it would be heavy and intense, but she feels very ready. And I felt her take my hand, or like we're holding hands. standing close next to each other. And it feels like she's taken my hand and we're kind of entering, like we are stepping out into the world and looking out. And we're both enjoying what we— like there's this pleasure. There's like a big smile on our faces, on my face, on her face. Like, I feel her saying she's with me.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
It's like I actually just can't believe it. I'm just taken aback. I'm just taken aback by how much I feel her. Yeah, literally, like, it's wild. She's here and she's saying she's always been here and she's very happy. And she's been waiting.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, for 330-ish years.
Thami:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She says that, yeah, she understands, she knows, and the things that I struggle to say, she knows. Like, she's saying that I don't have to Like, I don't have to explain. She knows everything.
Amy Babish:
She's been with you. She knows. She knows how hard it's been and how painful.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And how lonely. She told me she died of loneliness. She knows that. She knows. She knows what that is. Yeah.
Thami:
Yeah. Yeah, I'm just enjoying just being with her.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
Yeah. Yeah, it feels, I don't know. Yeah, like the support you get from somebody who knows. Like, she's just— yeah, I don't know, I can't describe.
Amy Babish:
She's a wise woman.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
She knows exactly what you need. I think she needs one more, one more piece from this.
Thami:
Hmm.
Amy Babish:
She's ready to unlock the heart, unlock the box, the magnetism in the heart. And what she tells me is that she needs to receive something. And it's not from you, but it's from the bigger field that you both are part of. And it feels like, um, it feels like it's like a healing balm. B-A-L-M. Sometimes my accent, you can hear it.
Thami:
I got it.
Amy Babish:
Um, so it feels like an ointment or salve. And she tells me that— I don't know if I'm going to say it right, but she says buku is involved.
Thami:
Yeah. Okay.
Amy Babish:
And so, um, okay. Yeah, when I say I can feel my chest open up a little bit, um, so it's that plus some other things that are, um, that can— like, it feels like wise women are going to come and make it. Like, they're gonna— she's showing me a mortar and pencil. They're gonna bring it in, and that the magic ingredient is love. Yeah, that's what she tells me.
Thami:
That's very funny.
Amy Babish:
What's funny about that one?
Thami:
I don't know. Yeah, it sounds like it's her personality, I think.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's very sweet and funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, all the ancestors are very different. So it feels like, you know, it's like when we have a hurt, sometimes we have to tend to the physical body, but then the emotional and energetic body need other things. So it's like a— it's all of those things put together. So I can feel that they're gonna like, like, make a plaster. Like some cloth that they're going to put it on and put it on the front and then put it on the back somehow.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
So you, you don't have to do anything. You can, you can help if you want, but you don't. They're going to do it for her.
Thami:
Oh, cool.
Amy Babish:
And it feels like she's being welcomed back into the community. Like they're gonna do the right thing for her. They didn't. They were too afraid to defy whoever these people were that were in charge and, um, very controlling and hateful and, um, abusive. So, and it feels very analogous to perhaps what happened in the church. They didn't People just went along with it. They didn't speak up. They didn't know how to say this is not correct. And, um, it feels like, um, feels like an atoning process. And, um, not that she did anything wrong, but that there was a lot of wrong done to her and no grace was given to her. And that you also receive that. And I asked her, you know, at that time, that's a time when all kinds of beliefs were around. It's not— she believed in God, but it wasn't a religious God. It was like wholeness, greater divinity, greater divinity, the mystery. That's when religion's kind of emerging in different places in the world. And it's She understands wholeness.
Thami:
Wow.
Amy Babish:
And so it's that she's being received with wholeness and her wholeness, and that people can— the community members can receive her with wholeness. So we'll just kind of go into that space, and they're working on her already, but we can be with her in that process. I'm gonna check in what's happening for you.
Thami:
Yeah, I don't know if this is— yeah, but I felt I could see or feel immense amount of spaciousness.
Amy Babish:
Mm-hmm.
Thami:
And I could see what feels like movement. So like her moving, it feels like she, for some reason, just felt freed up to move around, move her body. I could see her, like, literally, it's kind of this kind of thing, action.
Amy Babish:
Stretch.
Thami:
Yeah, stretch. And I could see, so there was a bit of dancing and I was like, am I feeling this?
Amy Babish:
I don't know.
Thami:
There's a bit of dancing and then I could see her in this posture of arms out and then I could see her face Looking up, and I could see light falling onto her face, like this is light onto her face. And yeah, like, yeah, the light, I can, yeah, it feels like, yeah, space and permission.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
And it feels it's coming through like she's responding with moving her body.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. What do you notice in your body?
Thami:
I definitely feel a lot less, um, I don't know, I, I've, yeah, I feel a lot less like there's less weight on my body. I'm breathing better. I still have a bit of heat, like, in my back, on my backside.
Amy Babish:
I get that the heat is going to eventually, like, within the hour or 90 minutes, will leave. And my sense is that the box around her heart just dissolved. Like, whatever, whatever they were doing, it helped to dissolve. So she has her full essence back. And when I checked on it, unlike many constellations where we either have to take part of our life back or our soul back, it wasn't that kind of agreement with you two.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
And so you, you are Your, um, your magnetism is, is restored now. So it's like, like for like. So since she got restored, you got restored. Um, so you did it for her, but it was also for you.
Thami:
Hmm.
Amy Babish:
And, um, it feels like they want to offer you a blessing. The more like the community members and, um, more ancient elders than that, they want to gather around you and offer a blessing for your romantic partnership.
Thami:
That's cool.
Amy Babish:
Queer romantic partnership. We got to be specific, says this ancestor. Yeah, yeah, we'll let them gather around you. And it might be with words, it might be dancing, it might be colors, it might be music. But you'll, you'll get it in a way that makes sense to you. What happens for you now, Tammy?
Thami:
Yeah, I actually can't I'm not connecting with the community.
Amy Babish:
Yeah.
Thami:
So I'm not seeing the gift.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, I feel that it's in the, um, felt sense. I don't think it's a visual one. It feels very, very Tammy-esque. It feels very subtle.
Thami:
That would make lots of sense. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Yes. And it feels like, you know, like when you talk about, like, with music, like finding the right words and finding my music, it's like, put your finger on it. Like, what is it together? Like, it feels like something like that. Like, yeah, it's very like, you'll feel it when you feel it. It's already here, but it, like, has to integrate first.
Thami:
Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense to me.
Amy Babish:
It feels like that.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Um, is there anything else you want to say to this ancestor before we, uh, complete? You can ask her her name.
Thami:
Oh yeah. Whoa. Yeah, I would like to ask her Um, how we can remain connected.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah.
Thami:
For some reason, I don't— the name is not really— yeah, maybe it'll come.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Thami:
I'd love to stay connected, and I'd love to know more about what she thinks about the world. And yeah, I really resonate with her essence.
Amy Babish:
And it feels like she, she has some of the details of the origins of your family's tribe. So it feels like I can feel braiding, like there were origins from this group, there were origins from that group, and then it became this tribe. But it feels like it was like lost in the passing down of information.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
So she might have other origins that Okay. Might be in some history books, but not like in your family's— your family's record keeping is.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
That feels important. She wants to share that she has that resource.
Thami:
Okay.
Amy Babish:
Um, so in terms of keeping touch, um, she's kind of like, you can, you can find me at any time in your garden.
Thami:
Cool.
Amy Babish:
And the music. When you're teaching in the oceans.
Thami:
Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Just call on her.
Thami:
Yeah, I feel that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah. She feels like very, very willing. And it's like some ancestors, like, talk to me once a week when you're, you know, making art. Like, she's not like that. She's very specific. Like, she's very general, very, very generous. Very, very—
Thami:
I feel— I do feel that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, yeah, she's very, very generous. Yeah. Um, is there anything you have questions about or anything you want to name?
Thami:
God. I feel like this is very unfamiliar territory for me.
Amy Babish:
Yes.
Thami:
And it's like I'm not really keen. I'm kind of over the romanticizing of an idea. So I'm just basically putting it out there to say, It feels unknown, and I'd like support, you know, within navigating that. And I do feel support for some reason.
Amy Babish:
Mm-hmm.
Thami:
And yeah, it's interesting. I feel, yeah, like I mean, even showing up to this, even though there was a lot of anxiety and stuff, it feels extremely different to 4 years ago, whatever, however long back. So yeah, receiving everything with much excitement and almost like lightness and curiosity, but also very— so it's like unfamiliar, but I feel like she might get it. She actually gets it.
Amy Babish:
She does really get it.
Thami:
Yeah. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
It feels like sometimes I don't have this, you know, sometimes I have these feelings, but I've never said it out loud on a podcast. But I feel like as people listen to this episode, I can feel that their fields are going to be cheering you on. No, it might, it might be something wild, like someone's ancestors in the, in the listening field connects you to your actual partner in the real world.
Thami:
That'd be cool.
Amy Babish:
It'd be wild. You may or may not ever know it, but your ancestor will be able to tell you. That's like, she's gonna be there as people listen to because ancestors can multitask like that. So it feels, it feels like something like really mysterious, sacred, holy, like a mir— it feels miraculous. That's the word.
Thami:
Yeah, I absolutely agree with that.
Amy Babish:
Yeah, it feels like, um, many, many, um, many ancestors, not just your ancestors, have been on deck to connect you and this woman. It feels like Written in the stars.
Thami:
Yeah, I feel that too. I mean, yeah, I don't know how to describe how I feel. It's, yeah, like, um, yeah, whatever you said. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
Can you feel it's unlocked? It's unlocking. I can feel it's unlocking.
Thami:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels deep. It like, it feels divine. It feels like, yeah, the timing and everything. Um, and yeah, yeah, it's always— it— I think because it's always felt so like intangible and so like I've never been able to grasp it. I feel like also because of that, there's just some divine orchestrated thing that's happening that I resonate with a lot. Yeah.
Amy Babish:
The podcast is one way. going to have that, um, ancestral matchmaker happening on one end. And it also feels like a possibility is to start to name with people that you're ready, which would be a different level of vulnerability— people you trust. Um, but it feels like, um, someone's name is coming to mind that's, um, not South African but loves South Africa as much as a South African. I'll share her name afterwards, but it feels like there's some people that would jump at the chance to be a matchmaker for you.
Thami:
Awesome, yay!
Amy Babish:
People who really know you and get you and really honor your essence and Yeah, they have a sense of like, like literally like a radio dial, like tuning into who would be a beautiful match for you.
Thami:
Yeah, cool. That's encouraging.
Amy Babish:
Is there anything else before we close up?
Thami:
Is there anything else? No, not that I can think of. I can't wait to just sit with this.
Amy Babish:
Yes.
Thami:
I, I'm all over things for a very long time. Yes, my friends might say like too long, but I really love, I really love just like, yeah, I think I'm definitely gonna commune and chat some more, um, and just like sit with all of, all of the things that have come up from this. Yeah, there's so much to— yeah, I'm really— I think one of the biggest things is just knowing that I have this ancestor who's— yeah, like, that's wild to me. So unbelievable. So yeah, literally such a gift.
Amy Babish:
Yeah. Yeah, you're no longer alone ancestrally. I know, you know, you're not alone in this.
Thami:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Amy Babish:
Ancestry, that makes it feel quite different. Yeah, around this. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you to you and this ancestor and to your field for this journey around, um, unlocking romantic queer love. and magnetism and partnership. Um, and for those of you listening, whatever has been locked away, um, or hidden or, um, omitted, I hope that you receive something as well. And if you're ready to work with me individually, you can send me an email, amy@amybabish.com. And I'm also sharing that, um, I will be offering a retreat this fall, which we're in 2026. Um, uh, October, it's the 3rd week of October, uh, I think the 24th and 25th, if that, if that's right. But the dates will be in my, um, in my newsletter upcoming, and we'll be doing work of, of this kind, um, deep work with things that have been stuck or evasive or elusive. So until we meet again. Sending you blessings from the dove land that I steward outside of Washington, D.C., and trusting that there are many, many ancestors and supports just waiting to help you in this big life you came to live. Thank you.